tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post4837564767107915796..comments2024-03-04T06:54:50.622-06:00Comments on Reactive Champion: Patricia McConnell Seminar: Emotions in DogsCrystal (Thompson) Barrerahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-84174403914017827542011-12-14T21:36:02.493-06:002011-12-14T21:36:02.493-06:00Tegan, I'm sure you follow Patricia's blog...Tegan, I'm sure you follow Patricia's blog, but in case you don't, here's her post on anger in dogs: <br /><br />http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/anger-anger-managementCrystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-9189773782753875722011-12-05T20:55:08.396-06:002011-12-05T20:55:08.396-06:00A little bit off topic, but not really. Debbie (at...A little bit off topic, but not really. Debbie (at Fearful Dogs) made a post about HER fear in the woods recently. To me, she described perfectly how the amygdala jumps you into defensive drive, before your brain evaluates and applies logic and reason.<br /><br />It's here: http://fearfuldogs.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/catch-the-feeling/<br /><br /><br />(She doesn't use the term amygdala at all, of course, but it's just what came to my mind as I read her piece.)Teganhttp://leemakennels.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-30506773038836380042011-12-02T20:57:23.327-06:002011-12-02T20:57:23.327-06:00I'm not sure if dogs are capable of things lik...I'm not sure if dogs are capable of things like spite, retaliation, or revenge. It implies an ability to know you were treated wrongly, to take on another's perspective (they wouldn't like it if...), and to plot/plan/manipulate that action. If a person wanted to, he MIGHT be able to make an argument for that (the jealousy study, the work on imitation, and the planning... well, I'm not sure on that one, but I feel like dogs can do that). <br /><br />That said... I don't WANT to make an argument for it. Call it my fondness for dogs and the "Disney Dog" myth that runs deep through our culture, but I want to believe they are capable of all the good emotions, and none of the bad.Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-68023477973924675952011-12-02T20:20:15.365-06:002011-12-02T20:20:15.365-06:00Everything I read says the amygdala is the first r...Everything I read says the amygdala is the first reaction, and it's uncontrolled. Then, other bits (that I haven't been reading about) kick in and start to introduce logic to that initial reaction.<br /><br />The amygdala governs reactions to fear and pain, it tries to preserve the organism... That is, if something is hurting, the organism needs to react NOW instead of thinking about it. The amygdala provides that immediate response - so that might be running away from what is hurting, or it might be biting what is hurting, whatever. It provides a burst of adrenaline and energy that it hopes will 'save' the animal from the painful or scary thing.<br /><br />I'm just struggling to see how that response is 'anger'. And I wish you remembered how Patricia linked anger to aggression. ;) Because I think they're different.<br /><br />I think really we're just playing with definitions... But to me, anger also suggests that dogs may be capable of spite, retaliation, or revenge, too... I'm even less certain that dogs can do that.Teganhttp://leemakennels.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-2570240121170700412011-12-01T21:27:48.728-06:002011-12-01T21:27:48.728-06:00I wish I had a better memory. Patricia made a comm...I wish I had a better memory. Patricia made a comment suggesting that aggression and anger are very similar, but I can't remember enough of the context or phrasing to be able to say what she said/meant. <br /><br />Going back to the anger/amygdala link- I'm not as well-read on it as you are, but I can kind of see her point. Anger can be hard to control. It's sometimes such a rush of sudden emotion that it's difficult to stop yourself from reacting- which sound a lot like the way the amygdala can bypass the thinking part of the brain. <br /><br />I'm probably getting hung up on words again (I do that so often), but that sounds more like rage to me, as compared to vengeful or indignant or just plain mad, you know? There are so many permutations of the same emotion...Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-54055773371682172922011-12-01T21:21:43.124-06:002011-12-01T21:21:43.124-06:00Yeah, that's what I'm thinking... To me, b...Yeah, that's what I'm thinking... To me, being angry is an emotion associated with unfairness (and perhaps vengefulness). And, like you, I think that's pretty complex (though not impossible) for a dog to understand.<br /><br />I think perhaps aggression is getting mixed up with anger. Certainly, stimulation of the amygdala (by fear or pain) may cause aggressive behaviour, but this doesn't mean the dog is angry... It means its scared or hurt and it is acting in self preservation.Teganhttp://leemakennels.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-57661799594185642082011-12-01T20:07:24.838-06:002011-12-01T20:07:24.838-06:00And I'm now googling anger. Most definitions i...And I'm now googling anger. Most definitions include a feeling of antagonism towards someone/thing that has wronged you. Which is actually a pretty complex cognitive process, when you think about it.Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-32633727152406219002011-12-01T20:00:13.705-06:002011-12-01T20:00:13.705-06:00Oops, forgot to respond on this one. Found some ot...Oops, forgot to respond on this one. Found some other research (talking about the human amygdala) and remember this thread.<br /><br />I have read about the amygdala because of this thread. ;) So my understanding is fresh and new. <br /><br />From what I've read: <br /><br />When an organism is pained or scared, the amygdala automatically produces an instantaneous response. The response is for a 'fight or flight' response - increased blood pressure and circulation, going tense, releasing neurotransmitters and hormones, and generally the organism becomes aroused.<br /><br />Now, is this anger? That is the question I'm grappling with. I am not sure that sudden rush of adrenaline and everything else is really anger... But then, what I'm reading suggests that anger is just an 'unpleasant feeling' associated with pain or fear. The response from the amygdala could be called anger, I guess.<br /><br />So my question is more 'what is anger?' than 'what does the amygdala got to do with anger?'Teganhttp://leemakennels.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-1976028093453831392011-11-23T07:00:10.538-06:002011-11-23T07:00:10.538-06:00Thanks Jennifer Jo. I'll try to keep reading y...Thanks Jennifer Jo. I'll try to keep reading your mind. ;)Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-4121054168750007872011-11-22T22:15:04.721-06:002011-11-22T22:15:04.721-06:00Well written post about a very important subject. ...Well written post about a very important subject. I'm sure I'll have occasion to refer to your blog in discussions regarding this matter, I can think of plenty of people who would benefit from reading your research. BTW, this is the second time in a week you that you blogged about something I was just reading up on! Lucky me! I don't know how you do it, but keep reading my thoughts!Jennifer Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07965137785421177984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-88599024528317977622011-11-22T07:55:04.595-06:002011-11-22T07:55:04.595-06:00I'm sorry, Tegan, but I can't elaborate. T...I'm sorry, Tegan, but I can't elaborate. That's all I have in my notes about it. The context was this: Patricia was asking us which emotions we thought dogs have- doing a survey that you can see the results to in the linked blog posts. Afterwards, she made a comment about how dogs can feel anger because anger is processed in the amygdala, and dogs have an amygdala. That was about it. I would assume that's a simplification of the process, of course. <br /><br />Has any of your research shown anger having ANYTHING to with the amygdala at all? Has it indicated where the burst of energy comes from? Or which brain structures are involved?Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-55645775048061001982011-11-22T03:59:18.799-06:002011-11-22T03:59:18.799-06:00I don't know about anger. I went and did some ...I don't know about anger. I went and did some research on anger and the amygala, and to me it sounds like the physiology of anger is more a burst of an energy... ? I don't know. Perhaps you could elaborate on this more, 'cause I'm confused.Teganhttp://leemakennels.com/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-69144481362916450452011-11-21T17:39:21.153-06:002011-11-21T17:39:21.153-06:00I'd guess that you're right about Toby'...I'd guess that you're right about Toby's guilty face being a conditioned response. Sounds like the presence of the tissue+human is enough for him to worry. Very interesting that he looks less guilty now...Crystal (Thompson) Barrerahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01738188430244886019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1101438868458660054.post-82932150277217259252011-11-21T08:10:41.302-06:002011-11-21T08:10:41.302-06:00Another really interesting blog post!
I was recen...Another really interesting blog post!<br /><br />I was recently thinking about emotions in dogs, most particularly guilt.<br /><br />Toby, a rescue that I've had for a year now, used to love stealing tissues. One morning I walked into my bedroom and found him sitting on my bed, just about to shred a tissue he'd just stolen from my night table. The thing was, it was Toby's extremely guilty face that alerted me to his wrong doing, not the tissue itself. The sheets on my bed are white, just like the tissue, so I didn't even see it there, till I saw Toby's face and started looking for it. Clearly my behavior couldn't have influenced him, since I didn't even realize he'd done anything wrong. If anything, Toby's behavior caused a response in me and not the other way around in this case.<br /><br />Not too long ago I would have said that Toby had the most guilty face, but maybe the guilty face was a conditioned response trained by his previous owner? <br /><br />I'd also have to say that his expression looks much less guilty now, than when he first came to live with us. Maybe because our responses to 'bad' behavior aren't as severe as they were will his previous family?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com